Good afternoon, thank you for your attendance.
We'll start after the break, with the delay we had at the beginning.
We'll start at the round table, so that it's
dynamic, and interesting for the audience.
We'll alternate questions with answers, we'll try to
get some comments from the members of the
organization, Dr. Moreno, who's here, Dr.
Díaz, Dr. Huerta, if you want to participate.
So, we'll start with a question, directed
to Welling, in this case, to Mr. Santiago.
Tell us briefly what has been the year 2025 for Welling,
in terms of whether the first year is a submission,
if it has been, or if you had previous experiences.
As we said before, we started the submission in 2021 SAF, not
so much because of the reduction of missions we could get,
which is obviously always important, but to train
ourselves, to see what documentation we could receive,
how we had to declare it, to start training
ourselves on how the system was going to work.
And that has allowed us to be completely ready in 2025.
We've already submitted a good part of the year's
mandate, plus an important amount of voluntary fuel,
which we submitted in 2025, almost doubling the amount of mandate.
And we've practically done that, we're receiving the documentation,
and we're very calm with the management we have to do,
because of this prior preparation we've done since 2021.
Thank you very much. Regarding the question of what role AENA
can play as a leader in airport infrastructure management
in the transition from the air sector to
decarbonisation, what can you tell us, Laura?
Well, in the end, we are, so to speak, as we've seen,
tractors for the decarbonisation of the air sector.
And our role is, in a way, to promote or
encourage the decarbonisation of the sector
through different mechanisms, so that our airports
can reach more efficient and sustainable
aircraft, and to promote the consumption of
sustainable aviation fuel in our airports.
That's a bit of the role that AENA can play.
Thank you very much, Laura.
Regarding what Dr. Ginar can tell us, a relative
who now serves as head of the European funds,
his general direction of regional incentives within the general
direction of the European funds of the Ministry
of Finance, is an aeronautical engineer at the
Universidad Politécnica de Madrid, right?
He belongs to the body of engineers of the State.
What is, in terms of acceleration for the
implementation of SAF, according to David's opinion,
what fiscal or aid measures can be taken to incentivise the use of SAF,
since we have pointed out that an asynctote that
he had was precisely the economic and fiscal issue.
Yes, correct, Antonio.
Well, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me.
I think it is very important to hold events like this,
which contribute their important grain of sand regarding
the awareness, regarding the implementation of SAF.
And a possible answer that could be, what can be done to incentivise SAF
through fiscal policies and aid policies,
I could indicate that fiscal discredit
has already been mentioned a bit,
such as for air companies and private jet owners.
We know that today, for example,
in the United States, with the US law on the reduction of inflation,
a fiscal discredit is already being introduced
for these agents of 3 years, 2025-2027.
We also have to take into account the reduction of taxes.
This reduction of taxes, we know the tax on hydrocarbons,
well, obviously, the SAF has to be seen as a reduced tax.
It has to be made more competitive in order to be implemented.
Today, there are different alliances and different working groups
that are trying to negotiate, force, be with the government
to really implement this reduction of taxes.
Likewise, let's think about tax exemptions.
We have the VAT, the tax on added value,
well, why not apply a tax exemption to all SAF
transactions in this VAT, make it disappear.
We have spoken before about different compensation mechanisms,
such as Corsia, there is also the trade regime,
the emissions of greenhouse gases, of the European Union,
I would say, increase that tax exemption
associated with that responsibility for carbon.
That is, what could be done is to buy a
certain percentage of carbon footprint
from corporate trips or cargo trips.
Also, incentives could be given to the offer to incentivize those SAF
and reduce the requirement of a certain
percentage of CO2 emissions reduction to opt for an incentive.
That percentage can be very high, so what has to
be done is to reduce it to opt for an incentive.
That is in the part of fiscal policies.
Let's not forget about the aid that my
colleagues have already been talking about.
For many years, I remember, from the European
Union's Competitive Innovation Program to the CIP,
to the seventh framework program, to Horizon 2020,
to the Horizon Europe, the ETS, the Funding Europe,
all these programs are aimed at a multitude of topics,
a multitude of themes, so why not continue financing sustainable fuels.
Apart from that, we have said that to implement these SAF,
the entire value chain has to be involved.
So why not also have aid to the infrastructures?
That is, to the storage, logistics, distribution.
And I would also point out that, no less important,
since we see that this is going to be for many years,
until 2050, but obviously, in my opinion, it will be expanded,
a lot of job creation will be needed,
so why not put some special aid programs specific to job creation?
More than 200,000 jobs are supposed to be needed,
so why not also focus efforts on employment?
I think all this is contributions for...
Ok, thank you very much, as always, Minister of Finance.
Regarding, or in short, let's call it the vision
that the General Directorate of Civil Aviation may have,
Cilia, what do you consider, what could be the greatest risk
that there is, or that could, what is, well,
discourage the escalation of the SAF in Europe,
especially since we have spoken that in China
things are being done, frankly, well and fast, right?
To, well, to fulfill the European mandate
of sustainable aviation in the sector.
Can you hear me? Yes?
Well, very quickly, we try to see the risks in two ways,
one that are risks of the sector itself,
and another more geopolitical risks, right?
We have already spoken about those of the sector,
I will not repeat them, we have all commented on them,
the availability and cost of the SAF, the traceability, and to ensure,
we are talking about sustainable aviation
fuels, and they have to be sustainable,
there are a series of criteria that they have to meet,
and that traceability, or to show that
they meet those sustainability criteria,
that in Europe they are more strict than in other places,
well, it is a, it is a very complex issue as well.
And then, that part of implementation of
incentives, that I will not go into more detail.
And on geopolitical issues, well, a little bit
of what we talk about, access to raw materials,
is quite important, the availability of green hydrogen,
and then what is the bankability of the sector,
we have also talked about how to make those projects happen,
with which to pass that financial
uncertainty, and finally, well, a little bit,
in the time that we live in those shocks, constant geopolitics, right?
Well, the changes in policies that what
they do is generate a lot of instability
in the sector to decide to make those
investments so large that they are needed.
Thank you very much, Cecilia.
We have talked about the institutional
part, the part of what is operational,
the part of operators, the part of infrastructure managers,
we are missing what is the part of the vision of the manufacturers,
apart from the visions that we will see now of the colleagues.
From the point of view of ERVAS, right?
As a leader in this type of, well, sector, right?
There is a commitment in what is within defense and space,
in the use of SAF, in operations, in the Spanish factory,
and I would say, I would also dare to say,
what has been, in short, the goal achieved in 2025
in the use of SAF within the Spanish context, right?
Yes, my name is Oscar from ERVUS Spain,
currently I am an employee at ERVUS Defense and Space.
Yes, that's right, we have a commitment to use
10% in SAF in our internal operations,
including those carried out from our operations
in the factories in Getafe and Sevilla.
In 2024 we met the goal,
and in 2025 we are on our way to reaching that goal.
To put this figure into value,
let's remember in the report that Celia has already well expressed,
in the Red Fuel EU Aviation Annual Technical
Report, the use of SAF represented 0.
6% in the operations carried out in the EU during 2024.
So we are well above that.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Oscar.
Regarding the vision that Repsol may have in this regard,
what is the role of SAF, frankly, in the development of the air sector,
in the face of, well, other solutions,
better known by society in general, or public opinion,
such as electrification or hydrogen, right?
What is Repsol's vision in that regard?
Well, I think I'm going to repeat myself a lot,
because I think we have already commented on it all.
It is the only solution we have in the short
term, because the good thing about it is
that we do not have to change anything in our way of working,
in our infrastructure, in our aircraft.
The electric aircraft will arrive, the hydrogen units will arrive,
but in the medium-long term, in the short-term, we have no other lever
to face this challenge of decarbonizing,
and it is our main bullet right now.
Okay, thank you very much, Javier.
Regarding the vision that a management of airport infrastructure
with a purely industrial character may
have, we would say, well, in your opinion,
in the terms of the RFUELE and EUBASION regulations,
in the application of 2025, which is what we are
talking about, which concerns us at the moment,
what is the exact mandate that, in your opinion,
Alejandro, the fuel suppliers must fulfill from January 1 of this year,
and above all, where would the main lack of sector preparation
be in the face of this regulatory milestone?
Indeed, as has already been mentioned in the transparencies,
from January 1, it is already mandatory the use of fuel in 2%.
The European Union is prepared, as we see,
at a legal level in this matter, in fact, it is already being applied.
The problem is that at a technical level, both in volume and cost,
we have already seen that it is not
correct or is not at the same speed.
Normally, the laws usually come after technology,
in this case, well, I suppose that for a matter
of anticipating the sustainable problems
and CO2 emissions, it has gone faster.
In that sense, we have to work harder
to achieve that volume with the emissions
that are being produced, and the cost that is around now,
as I have already mentioned, in AENA,
8 or 10 times more than the traditional
kerosene, we will have to look for incentives,
we will have to look for help, and somehow also
increase production, as usually happens
in this type of technology, so that it goes down.
I believe that in that sense, the operating
cost today is significant for companies,
and therefore we have to put that economic commitment to the test
and evaluate it, despite the efforts that companies
like Boeing or Airbus are making, but they need,
in other ways, to help global air traffic recover.
At least the European one, because, well,
we have not talked about this area, we are in Europe, but the emissions
in Europe represent 10%, that is, 70 or 80% of CO2 emissions
are from China, sorry to say it, but we have to say it, because if not,
we lose the global outlook, China, the United States and India.
There is 70 or 75% of the total emissions.
Our total emissions are not representative in that sense.
Yes, indeed, very well pointed out, Alejandro, thank you.
Taking the line of the answer from Alejandro,
I wanted to comment on the economic issue,
well, what challenges does the airline see,
specifically the part of the Boeing vision,
to meet the SAF mandate of the European Union?
Nothing easy to meet, indeed, in all its extent, and above all,
what do they believe would be missing in
Europe, compared to other world geographies,
so that there are more productive plants, SAF?
Well, it is certainly a challenge, we do appreciate the mandate,
but we believe, from the point of view of the airlines,
that the mandate is good for the sector,
because it puts everyone at the same
level, that is, everyone has to supply 2%,
so there is no longer a competitive distortion
between those who want to do it and those who do not want to do it,
but that is good for accelerating that
sector and re-authorizing that demand.
We do see that mandate is accompanied
by a series of incentives that are now being seen,
and we also see that the European Union is starting to move,
and last year it released what are called the SAF Allowances,
to help the SAF to take off, that has been very good,
but we believe that we still have to give it a little push,
we saw the other day the European Union
launching a new package of measures,
we will see how it ends up materializing, and we have to wait,
but we do believe that, first of all,
incentives, and then we also have to unlock,
at the country level, problems like the electricity grid,
some problems that are important, so that even if we have the money,
we can execute it, and that is something that we have to work on.
Ok, I agree.
More precisely, the line that Santiago de Güellin pointed out,
I did want to make the clear question
to a leader infrastructure manager,
in terms of, hey, it has really been pointed out
that one of the problems there is is the electric infrastructure,
that would not support all the productive needs within this framework.
The question that I am addressing to Aina, in the voice
of Laura, is, Aina, are you prepared to be able to
supply SAF on a large scale, and then,
currently, although Solayo has responded,
in all the airports of the Aina network,
how would this be, scalable or not?
Yes, Ana, Aina, we do have
our airports adapted to be able to supply SAF.
We, in the end, well, as we have said, the sustainable aviation fuel
is a drop-in fuel, which can be supplied to the airports
by the same infrastructure that reaches the conventional kerosene.
Today, as we have seen, within the REFUEL regulation,
there are 21 airports that, by obligation, must be supplied by SAF.
However, this regulation, until 2034, to make things easier,
when this obligation is being initiated,
allows a flexibility mechanism, and that is that
the fuel suppliers can comply with the mandate
by putting all the fuel in a single airport.
That is, in Spain, for example, they could put all the fuel in Madrid
and they would already be complying with
that obligation that the fuel suppliers have.
The advantage we have in Spain is that we have a logistics company,
Exxonum, which has an integrated network of products
that are connected to most of the storage stations and airports,
which means that, through a mass balance system,
we can have practically SAF at all the airports in Spain,
even in the Canary Islands, which is not connected,
it is not in the peninsula, it is quite far away, but even there,
it can be available at any sustainable aviation fuel airport,
and it is something that, because the airlines are
ultra-peripheral, because of the commercial issue,
the commercial regime of emission rights,
they get more benefits, so to speak,
and it is something that is being promoted.
So, by obligation, there are 21,
but due to the particularities of Spain and the infrastructures,
the airport network, the logistics
network, and for another series of reasons,
we could say that we could be prepared
to supply sustainable aviation fuel
practically at all the airports in Spain, it could be said.
Thank you very much, Laura.
The question that comes up in light of Laura's intervention is,
what barriers do we have today for the production and scaling of SAF,
and therefore, how could we overcome this question?
I will obviously direct it to Repsol.
We are prepared.
What is needed, as you have already
mentioned, is agility at the European level,
and to implement a system of incentives that
allows us to scale the production of aviation fuel,
because in the end, we have to consider this
as a challenge at the European level, at the country level,
and we have the opportunity, we are running out of time
to lead this change, we have set 2050,
but we have to get our act together and we have to get on it now,
because if not, we will not get there.
I agree.
So, we have talked about the problems
that the application, the applicability of the EU 2050 mandate,
and now we are going to see, briefly, according to what Celia told us,
about the General Election of Civil Decency,
what are the main advantages in this regard,
within the refueling and evasion mandate, in your opinion?
A little bit, what we see is that Spain, at the most national level,
has an opportunity, as the colleague from Repsol was saying,
and I think it is something that the whole sector agrees on,
and I mentioned it before, very quickly,
to be a leader in the production capacity
of sustainable and synthetic fuels,
because we have very low energy costs,
and we also have that ExxonMobil network,
which we have already mentioned on several
occasions, but it positions us very well,
because it reduces the entire logistical cost,
it is very easy to be able to fulfill that mandate
with that oil network that we have towards
the airports, and the mass balance systems
of Brooklyn Claims continue to be promoted, which allow to decouple
the physical presence of the SAP from its accounting
presence, and then there are also many studies
that have been done on everything that could
generate, at the level of work in Spain,
a little bit with the emptying of those lands,
there are available to be able to house these plants.
So, we see that the mandate can bring
some investments at the national level, which could lead us,
could put us as leaders of that production capacity,
with all the good that that could bring,
those advantages that the first energy independence could bring.
Okay, Celia, thank you very much.
Well, then, the next question, the conclusion of the question would be,
well, in terms of the implementation of
SAF, in terms of regulatory measures,
how can the extensive option of the SAF be favored,
in light of the opinion that David Ginar can give us?
Well, I think that in principle,
obviously, it is the SAF that will prevail,
but we have in our hands the LCAF, the Low Carbon
Aviation Fuels, that we have to take into account,
because under the BASI, under Corsia, they are, as it is said,
"selectable fuels", they are "eligible fuels",
so we have to take them into account.
I think that, until now,
several regulations are already being implemented,
I'm not going to talk about anything else, the
Refuel Your Aviation, the mandatory compliance rules,
how to establish quotas that force airlines
to use a minimum percentage of SAF in their operations,
but I would say that it would be, I think it has already been said,
by the REFSOL, to increase the "selectable raw materials",
until now there are some raw materials,
but there are others that are restricted, and that cannot be used,
such as the derivatives of food items, they cannot be used,
and they can be used in other sectors,
because I think that there could be a strong advance,
that regulation that is being implemented,
and that this must be a stable, lasting,
fixed framework, obviously it has to evolve,
but it has to go hand in hand with all the
stakeholders, all the parties interested,
technology, public administrations, industry, etc.
The flexibility of the mission trade system should be increased,
the one that is already there, but obviously it has to be re-evaluated,
it has to be seen if it can be improved,
and the increase in the use of the virtual trade of SAF certificates.
It has also been said before
that one of the difficulties is the process, obviously, yes,
in the administration, the process is one of the issues
that has to be implemented, and those production routes
of making sustainable fuels, both as EFA, as ATJ, or the relationship,
the synthesis of FisherTrop, or whatever,
it takes a few years to certify, to be produced.
Those production routes, which take more or less between 3 and 7 years
to carry out the process until the end,
if that process could be reduced and not be half, 5 years,
then it would be, let's say, implementing more SAFs,
because this would be, let's say, a little what could be helped
in the regulatory part that I can think of.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you David.
Well, then, of course, we can ask the question, right?
Well, are all the products, all the products,
or other products prepared for the use of SAF in air operations, right?
Both in production and in later use services?
The question addressed to Oscar from Airbus.
Yes, Airbus Defence and Space has carried out in flight
for its transport fleet C095-400 MRDT
and clarified the use of certified fuels with SAF components,
with a maximum mixture of 50% for these platforms.
So, yes.
Okay, Oscar, thank you.
Well, then, in summary, let's say, in the air sector,
in voice, at least, one of the main actors in Europe, what is in voice.
Well, then, what role does the airline play in explaining SAF?
Our role, in the end, we do not intend in
any case to be sustainable air products.
Our main role is to be consumers, to move passengers,
not to create new molecules, but we do want to play
an important role in supporting these
projects and ensuring that they have a demand
and that the industry moves and can develop.
We give them a security that we consume
that product and in some projects,
such as in the United States or the United
Kingdom, where there are incentives,
the IAG group has already invested more than 3,200 million
in different SAF projects for this to go ahead.
But for that to happen in Europe,
we have to see that there are a series
of incentives that allow us to get ahead.
Okay, Santiago, thank you.
So, well, in terms of the final goal,
which is to have a 70% requirement for SAF,
with a 35% objective for synthetic SAF, well, the question arises,
what does that derivative obligation of the use of SAF mean
for a decarbonization strategy, I would say, in the long term,
in the context of the European Union,
and what is the technological obstacle
that we are facing today within the sector,
in the voice of the director of the Aeroport of Teruel?
Yes, the issue of the sub-obligation of 35%, sorry, the throat,
of 35% of the SAF, what is the synthetic SAF, is representing,
with green hydrogen and captured CO2, a great challenge,
a great challenge that is new, let's say,
compared to what was initially proposed.
So, I think that in that sense, the issue we have here is,
just as we had with 2%, the issue of how we have to scale
all this capacity and obtain that necessary raw material.
Therefore, on the one hand, we have to have technological capacity,
maturity of technologies, which today do not exist
for large volumes, with more industrial capacity.
Right now, the synthetic SAF is in a, as I already mentioned,
from the General Directorate of Civil Aviation,
it is in a very early phase, production is extremely low in that sense,
and to reach 35% in 2050, you have to make a very strong, massive
and urgent investment, by the way, in
neutralizers and large-scale CO2 capture plants.
That requires that the preparation for 2050
of the industrial capacity to commercialize,
and therefore, at the moment it is quite low,
and it is necessary in the next decade to investigate, to innovate,
and to find help for the innovative
development of these new technologies.
Thank you very much, Alejandro.
Well, then, of course, taking that answer and that aspect about SAF,
well, the question derived from it would be in terms of hydrogen,
and especially green hydrogen, what is a fundamental point
for the use of SAF, and especially SAF to
meet those requirements under EU mandate?
How can it be, or can it become,
a bottleneck for the development of SAF?
This question is addressed to Celia.
The colleagues at REPSOL have more experience
than us in the subject of hydrogen,
but what we are also seeing is that hydrogen,
as one of the key components for the development of synthetic fuels,
would have three very rapid problems.
One, the delays that are occurring in current projects,
which are occurring at the European level.
Spain, in particular, is a leader in this issue,
and well, there are various delays in current projects.
Then, what is the competition with other sectors?
There will not be enough hydrogen for everything we want to use.
And also, to mention very quickly, the issue of hydrogen towards LCAF,
which the Minister of Finance has also mentioned.
A little bit, for a concern, is how this balance will be given,
or what will be gained in the end between sustainable fuels.
The LCAF fuels are based on Low Carbon Aviation Fuels,
which require less hydrogen in the entire production process,
and there is already a great push from the sector
to count on this equation of sustainability.
And there is also a little bit the part that
will be another bottleneck towards the SAF.
Thank you.
Agree Celia.
So, of course, we have just talked
about the real sustainability of the SAF and its value chain.
What can you tell us, Javier, about that?
Well, let's say... Can you repeat the question, sorry?
Yes, yes, yes.
How can sustainability be guaranteed?
To sum up what Celia has said,
how can real sustainability be guaranteed?
Sustainability, in a real term, of the SAF in its
entire value chain, under the experience of Repsol,
which is enormous, of course, in that aspect.
The fundamental thing, as I have said before,
is to have the whole chain very well traced,
from the origin, from the raw materials, because the main problem,
yes, it will appear out there, on the part of the raw materials,
but based on our certified acronyms, we verify that the raw material
comes from where it says it comes from,
that it does not compete with food,
nor are we destroying the environment in exchange for producing fuel
to support aviation, which would not make any sense either.
And that is the way we have to guarantee sustainability
in the entire value chain, and it is essential to take care
and monitor that chain of sustainability
a lot, because it is our passport
to be able to produce this sustainable product with
which to achieve these decarbonization objectives.
But the key is to have the entire value chain
very well traced and very well certified,
from the very production of the raw material
until it reaches the wing of the plane.
Thank you, Javier.
Yes, in reality, it must be observed that a
company has done what is even unsustainable
from the very origin, from the trace of the product,
of the input with which that is done.
We must remind the audience
that currently the SAF would be in the second generation.
The first is the best known, the one
that came from the agricultural world.
Of course, indeed, in the second generation we can be tempted to
continue using extensively agricultural resources
and, let's call it, reducing capacity in human food.
That's why we move on to the second generation,
where the second is already derived from exactly
another type of inputs that do not remove human food.
The third generation, the fourth, which we will see in several decades,
the third, which would be based on
gas, in the aquatic environment, etc.
And the fourth, which is almost science fiction,
and we are probably not yet prepared for it, is genetic modification
and molecular modification, at the molecular level.
So, even energy expenditure
would be something that would be the subject not only of research,
but of knowledge collection for the next decades.
We are in the second generation.
The question that can illustrate what Laura
from the point of view of AIDA, speaking of the future,
when they get to operate, because she has indicated it
very aptly in her presentation, she has introduced the aspect
of also vehicleizing from the aeronautical point of view
with an electric or hydrogen character, what will be necessary
to adapt in airports under Laura's vision, and how to make the supply
of this type of products, which is something, I
insist, that we see in the future somewhat far away.
Yes, the supply of aircraft is quite far away, but we believe
that surely in the short term we will start to have some vehicles
that will be arriving at the airport,
operating at an airport that can be hydrogen.
So, for those hydrogen vehicles that will be operating
at airports, it will be necessary to supply hydrogen gas,
and the hydrogen gas can arrive at airports in different ways.
It can arrive by means of, the most immediate thing, surely,
when it is necessary, that it comes by means of trucks,
tank trucks, that trucks come, and when the volumes are limited.
When there is more demand for hydrogen and it is no longer
possible to supply that hydrogen with trucks
due to the issue of limitations, traffic, etc.
Well, maybe we already have hydroducts,
hydrogen-dedicated pipes that arrive at airports
and then hydrogen can be supplied at airports as it is
done now with natural gas, dedicated pipes
of natural gas or hydrogen, or of both,
combined of both, that go directly to airports.
In the future, when hydrogen aircraft arrive, and if liquid hydrogen
is needed, maybe the gaseous hydrogen could arrive through the pipes
and be liquefied at airports with a liquefaction that can be
of this type of infrastructure, or even,
who knows, hydrogen could be produced at the airport itself with
photovoltaic plants that we will have.
So, well, yes, it is science fiction,
but well, we have to prepare for what
is coming, whether it is necessary to have it studied.
We are collaborating with Airbus, well, Aerolíneas, etc.
, to study different supply chain options and value chain
to supply hydrogen at airports to be prepared when necessary.
Thank you, Laura.
So, we come to this step to fund the value chain, right?
As for the value chain, the SAP's adoption plan, with a much
deeper character than the one we are with the vision of the
2050 mandate, in the case of Spain, what can
David, the Minister of Finance, contribute in his opinion?
Well, look, according to data from the Aviation Refugee,
Spain and four other countries cover more or less 99% of the supply.
That is, Spain is positioned among the top five in supply.
We have France, the Netherlands and Sweden.
And then we would go, so, keep in mind, the objective
of the directive is to mix 2%. Last year we
could not achieve it, we did not reach 0.
6%, but we are there. Regarding consumption, there are already
the air operators, the consumption airlines.
Well, I can say that in the part of IAG,
that we have here a representative, well,
in the part of Iberia, Iberia Express, Level, Bueling, well,
last year, it seems to me that they came to buy 28,000 tons to Repsol.
And what doubt is there, I mean, there is no doubt,
rather, that all airlines have in their roadmap the SAF,
from large companies, I know, Air France,
KLM, Lujansa, to small companies like Volotea.
If we already get down to production, Spain also has a lot to say.
Producers like Repsol, like Moeve or like BP,
we have them here, which are great producers.
Repsol, as indicated to the colleague,
well, with its main refinery, I think it is
in Cartagena, which I think is in operation
since 2023, more or less, or something like that.
Let's say it is the first plant dedicated exclusively
to renewable fuels and operations since 2024. Obviously, it has
other refineries in Bilbao, in Acoruña, etc.
Also Moeve, it is very important here in Spain, since its
installations in Huelva, since 2023, which has been more or less with
about 400,000 tons, and also intends to expand
its production to another 400,000 in 2030.
And finally, and no less, BP, with its refinery there, which
is in Castellón, well, it is, let's say, it is
planned to reach a production of 650,000 tons.
We also have to think, and we have already
talked about synthetic fuel, synthetic fuel,
although it is in initial phases, but
also in Spain it has something to say.
I have already indicated it, my colleague Alejandro Ibrahim,
there, in his transparency, Solaric, well, it will develop
its plant in Humante, in Soria, with 60,000 tons, and also
the project in Teruel, Turboleta, with 75,000 tons
for 2030, and apart from that, other smaller companies, such as
Sintelion, which will put into practice the project RAIS for 2030,
and RIC Energy, also, which intends, let's say, to get
three plants, and in total, more or less, 150,000 tons.
Sure, indeed.
So, in that context, of urgent productive need, using
the example that Alejandro, from the Teruel airport,
has commented, and David has now mentioned about Turboleta SAF,
the issue of Solaring in Teruel, well, the issue of
circular economy has also been mentioned, right?
The consequent question is, hey, what logistical
advantage does the circular economy have?
Therefore, the SAF plant, located in an airport area,
in an industrial character, such as the Teruel airport.
Yes, indeed, as you are commenting, the Solaring project is
an example of how the supply crisis can be addressed, well,
and that it is close, let's say, to the
production side. It is an investment that is planned for 1,200 million
euros, from the year 2030, with a production of 75,000 tons of SAF.
Well, the strategic advantage would be, on the one hand, to use
biomethane and biogenic CO2, derived from local agri-cattle
waste, which in this way can be, this area, let's say,
which is an area where agriculture is used a lot,
and where we are a strong aeronautical sector, right?
Right now, there is a lot of growth with
investments of more than 70 million euros per year.
Therefore, that union, I think, will be very interesting.
On the other hand, logistical efficiency,
we are talking about the most depopulated
areas of Spain, right? The smallest capital
of Spain, but it has the advantage that there are large spaces.
That's why in Aragon, all the large data centers are being installed.
There is an investment planned of 50 billion euros
from Microsoft, Blackstone and Amazon.
For you to get an idea, the normal investment in all
Spain is usually 9 billion euros per year,
and we are talking about 50 billion euros in Aragon
for the installation of plants related to data management.
And that data management will need a lot of energy,
an energy that, right now, does not even exist.
So, we are talking because that same problem will be derived
for this type of project, where oil and transport by road will be more,
not only are they so beneficial, but everything is local.
As I was commenting before in AENA, everything
is already being done in the self-consumption of airports.
The same is being done in ports, the same is being done in cities,
and we tend, therefore, to have that energy closer.
The same thing has to happen to us with the issue
of biofuel, with the SAF that is closer to the
production site, closer to where it will be produced, to avoid that
displacement that generates more waste.
Sure, indeed.
And also, there should not be, right?
It is already very complicated to make that type
of urgent investment of those actors,
private actors, infrastructure managers,
air operators, manufacturers, etc.
If there were no fiscal incentive and economic policy, then, of course,
one of the last questions regarding this issue is, well, what would be
that incentive or policy more effective, because there may be many,
but maybe they are not effective, right?
To accelerate the adoption of the SAF,
in line with what the European mandate asks us, and at a global level,
in terms of what Javier de Repsol thinks.
Well, first, the uncertainty of regulatory
because without regulatory uncertainty you cannot make the necessary
investments to to take on this challenge.
And in terms of incentives, the salaried workers
need their incentives too, of course.
And the only way to let's say, in the end, it's a bit like fishing
that bites the tail, so we need long-term
agreements in some way to be able to make
the investment decision and the salaried
workers to commit to the acquisition
of the volumes, but they also need
their own incentives to to take on this.
Here, we have to see this as a team effort,
we have set a very ambitious goal among all of us, and
we have to be very clear that we all have to contribute our
little grain of sand to be able to achieve those reductions
that may seem like numbers, but 70% of SAF in 2050
and half of ISAF are numbers that are achievable, but ambitious.
And we all have to be all in hand to be able to get there.
Yes, indeed, Javier.
I'm completely aligned with you
and with the vision that Repsol has in this aspect
which is that there are in my opinion, three things, right?
Regulatory certainty, indeed, fiscal attractiveness,
and that's important, and then, above all, stable
economic policies, not biased by one type or another,
so that, indeed, the sector can move to what is being asked for,
which is urgent, and also, there's one thing I want
to make here, a special mention, in defense of the
aeronautical sector as a whole, which is that, among the three
most traditionally safe production sectors in
the world, are nuclear, pharmaceutical, and air.
So, in that aspect,
I know that there's a demand for
over-strengthening, which in other sectors, hey,
also does things very well, but in this
sector it has that that estimate, right?
It's always asked for more, right? It's like students
who are always asked for more grades to pass.
Among those three sectors, the only one
that flies is the air, which is not in its
natural environment. Correct, correct,
which is transversal, indeed, and yes, yes.
What is good, and then, to conclude, in terms of
impact on the entry into force of the,
well, of the refueling, "aerovation",
in AENA, what is the vision that you can present, Laura, briefly?
Well, well, from the point of view of the refueling supply, I've
commented before, in Spain we're not having any problem
so that the refueling suppliers comply with the mandate.
Our colleague from Repsol can confirm it here, and
from the point of view of the obligation that air operators have,
to load 90% of the fuel, well, there it is, it's looking like
a paradigm shift, or a shift in the way of operating
that the airports had, to avoid, well, the issue of anti-tanking.
In airports where before the hubs, so to speak, the ones that
we have, Madrid, Barcelona, that before was loaded, well,
where there was a lot of fuel load, well, now it's being forced
in other airports, every time the aircraft loads fuel in every flight
that it's going to perform, and that increases the refueling operations
in airports where before they were practically non-existent.
And that's basically the impact that we're seeing in our airports.
However, despite having an increase in the refueling operations
it's not affecting, we have to adapt, we have to adapt a little both
the human resources and the materials to be able to meet this new
challenge, but we're achieving it all together.
Thank you, Laura.
So, the question we could ask a leader airline like Boeing,
in the words of Santiago, Doniet, do you think
there are other technologies that are
necessary to meet the sector's needs?
Well, as we've seen in the presentation, apart from the SAF, we have
other measures, and all of them are necessary.
We've said that the SAF is an important
volume of emission reduction, but if
we don't have the SAF with us, with a more efficient fleet
or more efficient operations, the SAF volume we'll need is huge.
So, we're interested in improving consumption, reducing the consumption
of aircraft and operations, so that the SAF we need to reduce emissions
is as small as possible, and the challenge is easier to achieve.
So, we have to make a combination of everything,
and we have to be technologically agnostic, which is
something that I think the EU has failed a bit, and is now moving back,
we have to set objectives, and then each sector will decide,
depending on the type of operation it does,
which technology is the most suitable, but it will be the experts
who decide, not the politicians who decide
which technology is the most valuable.
Ok, thank you, Santiago.
And well, obviously, on the side of Airbus, in the words of Óscar,
those customers, which are basically the same, how do you thank
your customers for the effort made in the use of the SAF
before the delivery of the aircraft, and especially
the compatibility of that fuel in case it's necessary?
Yes, although some customers show a great interest
in the well-established clear goals of decarbonization, others
are less enthusiastic about this, but different speeds
in the SAF option could reduce the interoperability within
the framework of OTAM, for example, for the military product,
an organization to which most of our customers belong,
in the part, I insist, of military air transport.
And therefore, for EADS, it is essential to guarantee
the compatibility, above all, to guarantee
the compatibility of our products.
We are still on that train
of thinking about those who are enthusiastic.
Okay, I agree, thank you, Óscar.
So, if we talk about a 2% implantation in 2025,
and therefore we repeat a progressive increase up
to 70% in 2050, inevitably it will imply a cost.
So, of course, that SAF mandate, in terms of
compatibility with EADS, is a very narrow margin,
given, luckily, that it is a liberalized
sector, a market that, with few market problems,
except for the obligation of the public service, etc.
, which is not the case, we would say, well, what are the
socioeconomic impacts that it can have,
positive, for example, the example of
Teruel, which Alejandro can bring us.
Yes, as you say, the issue of SAF in the coming years
in Europe can generate a problem of competitiveness, especially for
airlines, leasing companies, the big manufacturers,
in this case Airbus, of course, with respect to America or other
countries, even China, which is now also
developing aircraft technology, etc.
This, of course, on the one hand, what is going to
happen is also the tankering, which is the phenomenon where people,
or in this case companies, leasing companies,
are going to provide supplies in other countries, outside of
Europe, logically. On the other hand, this supply will also
grow in the coming years and what we have
to try to make the industry stay in Europe, this type of industry,
as the example I gave before of Solarix, which is a company that
is developing different solutions, there are others,
of course, Repsol, of course, Moeve and all these that you are
commenting, and Cepsa, well, no, what was Cepsa before, I mean,
OVP, which I think has also been named, in our
case, fuel supply is also with this company.
Well, in short, what I want with this to mean is that the development
of this industry, we have to encourage it in Europe,
that incentive, therefore, for the development of
I+D, which has to do with European policies, not only Spanish,
in this case, that development has to be rooted in
an independent capacity of other countries, and despite
the fact that the requirements in Europe are greater,
that we can be leaders in this technology and that we stop having
so much dependence on fossil fuel, that, let's say,
and I know, of course, it does not occur properly
in Europe, and therefore we have an energy dependence
of other continents that creates geopolitical
problems that will occur in the next years.
Sure, thank you Alejandro, and also in accordance with
the current geopolitical aspect of transnationality,
of the applicability of SAF, in terms of SAF and ESAF in
development itself, we could share some fundamental elements
current that are in discussion from an international point of view.
That can obviously illustrate Celia.
Yes, well, simply mention two aspects there interesting, and one
is a little more oasis, and the big discussions that are taking place
in the whole group, particularly of sustainable fuels, focus on
what is the type of raw materials, bio, in some way, that are
eligible for those sustainable fuels, and the big discussion
comes from there. At the European level it is more focused on what is
the bankability of the projects, and one thing that I do not want to
say is that, in my case, I believe that there is legislative certainty
in this case, I believe that it is, what is not a market,
what is needed are incentives to meet the existing mandates,
but the mandates are and issues that we are
above all talking at a more European level are mechanisms
so that the public sector can absorb the risks of private sector
investments so that that market can be generated.
It is a little bit the discussions that are being having.
Ok Celia, thank you.
And concluding, since you have introduced me to the international side,
the global aspect, in terms of what is the AWAZIU and the ICAO,
what is the long-term goal in terms of international reach?
We already take the global prize of being a net emission
for the year 2050, that can illustrate
us David, from the Ministry of Finance.
Well, the long-term goal of net emissions zero for 2050,
in my opinion, is a goal that can be
achieved, but it is quite difficult.
That is, we are here quite of the actors involved, and we all see
that it is an important network and that
the most important thing is a global commitment of all of us.
We know that at that time, in 2022, when the 41st Assembly was there,
the member states that were there at that time, I think it was 193,
were the ones who adopted those requirements to reach 2050.
Obviously, from there we are all the states
that have to get down to work and contribute our little bit of sand.
That is, we have to have a political commitment,
the correct regulatory framework, obviously, to continue with it,
to use the sustainable fuels that we are
all the time indicating that it is so.
Apart from that, technological innovation has to
go hand in hand. We have to know how to
carry those adoptions of new technologies,
the most efficient aircraft, new designs, that is,
we must be clear that those funding, those new investments,
we have to have the incentives we are talking about.
And apart from that, those market mechanisms
that are already existing, such as Corsica, such as ETS,
obviously, we have to evaluate them, we have to see them. So, in short,
the achievement of this goal is a global,
complex effort that affects us all.
This would be my answer.
Thank you very much, David.
Well, finally, to finish, in short, Alejandro concludes,
would European aviation, in your opinion,
be ready for the current year 2025, for the
ambitious mandate of 2050, and above all,
what role does innovation and short-term investment
play in these five years that we have from 2025 to 2030
to ensure the success of the final goal of decarbonizing aviation?
Well, as we were commenting, European aviation
is prepared, as has been seen, at the legal
level for the ambitious mandate of 2050.
It is also committed, because there is
a European commitment that this should be done.
The problem is that we are not prepared at the level of capacity,
of production capacity, with sufficient economic viability.
So, the initial 2% that is
being produced, I think that at the moment it
is a touch of tension that we have to improve.
In that sense, in the next five years, from
here to 2030, we have to see how it evolves.
The reality is that it will evolve more, but also the
requirements that there are are greater.
So I think we are not going at the same speed. If we have to
reach 70% of that in 2050, which seems like a lot, but it's 25 years,
at the moment we have to scale very fast. I believe, therefore,
that we have to develop projects, let's say,
like the one we have commented on, like those that are being done
by oil companies today, but they have to be incentivized.
We have to work, therefore, in the ESAF, in advanced technologies, and
get the necessary production capacity in the coming years,
because, ultimately, the infrastructures and the planes fly
thanks to the fact that we have fuel.
If there is no fuel, I believe that the business will fall.
- Indeed.
Well, let's go to questions.
If you want to ask something, there is a microphone in the room.
Any questions?
Do you have any questions about the topic on that matter?
Ok.
I want to give the mic to... Questions?
Ah, yes, you have questions.
Feel free to ask in English.
No problem.
- You were... A lot of the conversation today
has turned around the biofuels, the biodiesel.
Where would it come from?
And is there enough production, enough offer for it to
actually sustain the aviation industry?
- Anyone wants to answer the question?
It's about the source, no?
Of SAF production.
- Well, the short answer is yes, we are ready.
And there is enough production.
There will be enough production for sure.
And regarding the sources, they have to be certified.
They are... Nowadays, they are certified, but the
issue here will be maybe to expand the portfolio of the
available sources in order to produce this sustainable aviation.
Because as I think someone mentioned before, our regulation
is quite more restrictive than other ways of
transportation, but the message that I would like to
talk to the audience is that yes, there is
enough production and yes, we are ready to achieve the objectives.
- And I think it's important to share with us the answer, but I want
to move on to something that I would say can be better
within the sector, in the energy sector.
Further questions?
Anyone wants to make questions?
Please.
English or French, German, whatever you want.
- English, please.
So we know China and the US are lagging behind in incentives to...
in initiatives to incentivize this whole sustainability, making the
aviation sector sustainable, but has there been
some kind of initiatives that are being taken or that will be taken
in the future regarding SAF or is it really only Europe that is trying
to incentivize the countries to come up with a plan for SAF?
Or is it also China and the US?
- First, in comparison with the situation of C2
in the world, Europe is a small part of the issue, as I mean.
So we are not so important in terms of C2 emissions in the world.
Yeah, we are yeah, so far from China,
United States of America and India.
As Alejandro told us.
Anyone wants to answer?
- If I can jump in.
What we know and the US has a program that they called it Farm to Fly.
So they have a national program, I love the name, but the situation,
which is very good, I mean, because
it's connecting the region with the US.
This was before the change of government,
this was ongoing and it was supported, because
as we are saying, the sustainable aviation fuels
have a lot of benefits beyond the environment, that they
can bring more jobs to very isolated areas, to farming and all that.
So I think it was in January, they were still supporting that,
bipartisan, but now with the situation in the US,
everything is getting a little bit more hectic.
And for example, in the dialogue that we have with them,
it starts to be a little bit more complex
on how that's going to move forward.
For what we know, also, China, I don't know if
they have a program or not, but they are advancing.
So what we said before, it was that much of the feedstock
that is used in Europe, comes from China.
So that's cooked oil, used oils, and
things like that, they come from China.
And we know that they are just increasing their capacity,
their production capacity for SAF and for ESAF too, and I don't
think they have a specific program or dedicated
goals, but we know that they are
advancing it quite in a quite fast way.
And just I want to say a little bit more about
the feedstocks too, because we mentioned that and
I mean, when we talk, we have been
talking about biofuels, but again, my
colleague from Brussels knows much more than this.
But for example, there are a lot of
different feedstocks, but the European Union has the DREAD.
So we, I don't know if you're familiar with that, it's the
Renewable Energy Directive, so it tells you specifically
what it can be used and what it can be not used for
being eligible for a sustainable aviation fuel.
And then an important point is the use of the land, so that the land is
not, it doesn't change its use, it's called ILUC,
and that's something that we contemplate when
we talk about this stuff, but it's something very
interesting because you don't have that problem, for example,
in Brazil. So you have it in Europe, in Brazil they are much
more relaxed with that kind of normative.
Thank you so much for sharing this information about the topic.
Anyone else wants to give further information to our audience?
Okay, further questions?
Yes, thank you so much.
My question is that you mentioned a few times
that there is no real market for sustainable the SAF fuel
at the moment, and mostly it comes from political pressure,
social pressure, and the need for sustainability.
My question is that what are the guarantees currently,
what do you see as a guarantee that until 2050
there will be no, not a single European or
any other international company will become in a monopole position
in sustainable SAF fuel, in the way that they can break down the
so that they can act the way that they can break down
the efforts to reach this net zero carbon emission in this aspect.
Yeah, well, considering the entry cost into the market is so high,
there are no possibilities, there are no choice, that you have
no choice to have other competitors within the market.
I think Repsol could be answer or someone? I hope no.
I hope not.
Of course.
What you mentioned before, I think that the entry barriers
in this industry are really high in order to
visualize some big competitor from outside coming in
and taking the monopole of this, but let's hope that that happens
and let's hope that we can achieve this objective 2050 by ourselves.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, right. Please.
Just to add, you mentioned that there was no market.
This is partially right, but there's market, but there's
not a long-term market, so the airlines are willing and they will
buy SAF in the short term, but what they don't want to commit is to
30-40 year agreements to ensure that the producer, the developer
has the demand warranted for that
period so they can finance investment.
That's the harder part.
That's where the administration has to come in and meet and
sit both together and find a mechanism that bridges this
gap so that the producer can develop their facility
that will last for 30-40 years whatever they need, and
the airline can have certain commitments
but without a 30-year commitment that is
economically not sustainable for the airline, and
then we can develop this. But there's a
market, it's simply the timings are different
for the developers and the consumers.
Yes, I mentioned that because I mentioned that there's no market
but it means that there's no market developed.
So there's a new product we know that there's a mandate
to use it, but we don't know how that's going to evolve.
We don't know the pricing, we have all these
efforts in setting a price, we don't know.
So that makes it very difficult for operators to
commit for their use if they don't know
how much it's going to cost in 10 years.
I know I have to use it. So what we are
trying to do at the governmental level is what he's saying that
is to match the needs of the suppliers, the
investments, and the needs with the users.
So for example, one of the things that we're looking is that auctions
so these are government-backed auctions.
So there's a financial intermediary and
they look at the supplier and they tender it.
So they manage to provide funding for the investment
with a four-year, five-year contract and then
after that is done and the investment has
been done, they assume all the risk and then they look at the user,
the operator, and they say, "Okay, I can sell you the product now.
" This used to happen with all the renewable energy products also.
These are new things that the market is not developed.
It's not that there's no market, but it's not developed.
And I don't know about monopolies.
I'm not going to have an opinion on that,
but it will be very uncommon if that happens.
But it has happened also with solar energy, for example.
Thank you so much, Celia.
Further questions on the topic?
Yes, please.
I have a question about the airport infrastructure because
it's like you want to cut the... Again, you put the solar panels
for the energy in the airport and you want to
put also like turbines, if I heard it right.
So do you want to cut also the emissions around the
airport infrastructure or it's more only about the renewable and
sustainable fuel only for the aircrafts?
Yeah, for example, in IANA we have the photovoltaic plan
that we are going to put a lot of solar
photovoltaic in our airports, but we cannot.
..
We have one airport in which we have eolic energy,
which is La Palma airport, but there are some
restrictions regarding this kind of technology.
We cannot put eolic because it's very high.
The... They are very high and there are some restrictions of heating
around the airports and that's why, for example, eolic turbines cannot
be implemented in most of our airports.
We want to invest in this kind of technologies because it's kind.
..
We believe that we need it.
It's kind of a way to become adapted to the climate change,
like be more resilient, but, for example, producing
sustainable aviation fuels nowadays is not our business.
It might be.
We don't know. Maybe in the future, we decide to invest in this kind of
plant productions, but it's not our
business because we don't sell these fuels.
The fuel always comes into our airports and are, well,
the fuel suppliers are the ones that sell that product.
I don't know if I answered your question.
Okay. Thank you.
In our case, it's similar to Ana.
It's necessary, of course, solar energy is the
best solution at this moment to use in the airport because
it's very easy to lay and if you have a surface, it's
possible to put, but of course, the wind energy
is not a good solution for the airport.
As you know, we go into the air navigation and it's forbidden to have
in the route with the aircraft to have this kind of solution.
It's not a good solution, but we can work in a new material.
We're going to work in a new kind of energy with different gas or
other kind of possibility of hydrogen in the future.
We are working together in Europe in different projects to implement
in different airports because there is a continuous growing
this technology all over the world, but
in the case of Europe, of course, that is very important and we must
continue working, but the solution for the fuel may be out
of the airport because only we have the operator directory
with the aircraft only for takeoff and landing.
It's not possible other kind of operation.
Thank you so much.
Any other question?
No more questions.
I'd like a little bit more precision on where the SAF comes from.
I don't really understand if you say that there's a plan for it and we
can deblock regions where we get it from, but is it local?
Is it imported?
Is it food waste?
Or is it land that will be used to plant stuff and then reuse it?
I don't see really tangibly what is going to be used for the SAFs.
Thank you so much for the question.
What a pretty interesting question.
Anyone wants to answer?
Well, as you mentioned before, most of the feedstock right now
are imported and basically what is being used all around
the industry is Yuco, used cooking oil.
And I mean, basically gets into the plant and by a way
of processing it, not to enter in details, at
the end what you really want is like hydrocarbon
channels and this Yuco contains them.
And by combining it with hydrogen you can get what you want.
In this case, sustainable aviation fuel, but most of the
Yuco, as you mentioned before, is being imported from China right now.
And the opportunity here is to try to get this feedstock.
Some part of them are already being taken from local Spain, but
a good objective here will be to try to impulse
the local production also of this feedstock.
Thank you for answering the question.
If I can add a little bit just to because we didn't present
the different ways, no? And that's something I think we all assumed
that someone was going to do it and nobody did it.
But there are different certification paths for sustainable aviation.
You have a full branch of different methodologies
and there are certification schemes for that.
So that's only some ways of production.
And one thing that I don't know if it was clear is that the
sustainable aviation fuel, it burns at kerosene.
So it has the same characteristics.
So it contaminates the same.
But it's along the whole life cycle assessment.
And we use, and I don't know if you're familiar with
that methodology, that is when you get the reductions.
So in terms of the feedstocks, there are different
like we were mentioning it very not very fast, but
for example, like CAO is working on that.
There's a specific group of people only working on
those certification schemes, analyzing each pathway.
And there are countries, like I said, Brazil,
they have something that is called double cropping
and they want to use like for palm oil.
And then they put another type of feedstock so that they try to
have that pathway to be approved by a CAO so that it's certified
and it's eligible as a use for sustainable aviation fuels.
So most of them are palm oil, I guess, I look at
again like cooked oils, solid waste too, municipal
solid waste, although that is not that advanced.
And then we have the synthetic, that the
synthetic is carbon capture and then nitrogen.
So there are a few, there are
like a lot of types, no, with different names.
Thank you so much. For the questions, last questions?
Thank you, it will be a shorter one.
I'm just curious that you said that with the SCF and
other sustainable solutions, there are some needs
to change and improvement in infrastructure and operation.
And my question is that how do you see how will the airport
of the future look like in 2050 on the operational level?
How will it change compared to today?
Well, thank you for your question. I think your question is to Aina.
Laura.
From my point of view, the way I see it is
that it's, we are going to have a mix of
everything, of a lot of things. We are going to have renewable
energy plants producing in almost all of
the airports, solar photovoltaic, then we are going to have
geothermal, aerothermal energy that will be, that could be,
that could produce hydrogen in the future.
We are going to storage that energy and that energy that is
being storaged could be used for future hydrogen
aircraft, for future electric aircrafts.
And we are going to have also sustainable aviation,
aircrafts using sustainable aviation fuel.
So there will be a mix and of course because the
electric or hydrogen aircrafts they need new infrastructure.
We are going to need to adapt our airports.
We are, we need, we will need maybe to have longer runways
because they are going to be, the hydrogen aircrafts will be heavier.
We might need to reinforce our electric grid because a lot of power
and a lot of electricity is going to be demand.
We might also need to adapt the parking areas of the aircraft
because the future aircrafts may have
different different sizes compared to ours.
So it's like, it will be like a city in which
we are going to have different users using different technologies.
The energy management must be will be key and we will need to have
smart energy management and we will need to adapt our airports
not only in terms of infrastructure but also of
airport operations in order to become a reality.
Thank you so much for your answer.
Ok, this is the final.
Just a short word, a brief word, sorry, for the
non-native Spanish speakers. Thank you so much
for attending the event. Thank you so much
for those attending the event online.
Thank you to all the attendees.
I'm going to say goodbye to all of them.
First, to my colleagues from the event organization, to Don David Díaz
Gutiérrez from UPM, Daimore Nozalina from UNED,
Rosa Huertas Penelas from UNED, and then to the attendees
at the table or the presentation, Alejandro Ibrahim Pereira from
the consortium Plata Aeropuerto Teruel. Thank you so much.
Celia Cedolla de Lólumo from the Ministry of Civil
General Education. Thank you so much for your participation.
David Ginar, relative of the Ministry of Finance.
Thank you for your participation.
Oscar Duran Palomares from IRBAS.
Thank you so much for your participation.
Laura Arias Corredera from AINA.
Thank you so much for your participation. Javier Díaz Diez from Repsol.
Thank you so much for participating in the event.
Santiago López Barrena Arenas from Bueling.
Thank you for participating.
And I excuse the absence of the representative of ENAIRE,
Pablo Armada Jiménez, due to greater strength.
Thank you all and thank you very much for your interest in the event.
I conclude the event.
Thank you.